[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 107343] New: F10 behaviour when the menu is hidden

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

Bug ID: 107343
Summary: F10 behaviour when the menu is hidden
Product: LibreOffice
Version: Inherited From OOo
Hardware: All
OS: All
Status: UNCONFIRMED
Severity: normal
Priority: medium
Component: LibreOffice
Assignee: libreoffice-***@lists.freedesktop.org
Reporter: ***@hotmail.com
Blocks: 101912, 107316

Stuart has suggested that when the menu is hidden, F10 unhides it, as F10 is a
direct keyboard shortcut to immediately jump to the menu.

I think that if a user purposefully hides the menubar or the MUFFIN interface
defaults to hide the menubar, that F10 shouldnt unhide it. Instead, if the the
tabbed Notebookbar is enable, it should jump to the Home tab.


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101912
[Bug 101912] [META] Accessibility (a11y) bugs and enhancements
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107316
[Bug 107316] MUFFIN needs to provide GUI keyboard access equal to Menu and
Toolbars

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

Yousuf Philips (jay) <***@hotmail.com> changed:

What |Removed |Added
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Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
Ever confirmed|0 |1

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

V Stuart Foote <***@utsa.edu> changed:

What |Removed |Added
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CC| |***@utsa.edu

--- Comment #1 from V Stuart Foote <***@utsa.edu> ---
Sorry, but in using the Notebookbar (or presumably any other MUFFIN assemblage
that hides the main menu) exposing the main menu without fuss is desirable. But
I take your point that with the Tabbed Notebookbar now hiding the main menu by
default, one would want to be on the "hamburger" configuration tab to expose
the main menu.

So some room for doing something clever--it just needs to be consistent across
all the GUI.

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

Yousuf Philips (jay) <***@hotmail.com> changed:

What |Removed |Added
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CC| |***@gmail.com

--- Comment #2 from Yousuf Philips (jay) <***@hotmail.com> ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org
Sorry, but in using the Notebookbar (or presumably any other MUFFIN
assemblage that hides the main menu) exposing the main menu without fuss is
desirable.

What would be the purpose of exposing the main menu bar when all commands in it
are available the Notebookbar? I would believe very few users using the tabbed
Notebookbar would also choose to enable the menu bar.

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org
But I take your point that with the Tabbed Notebookbar now hiding
the main menu by default, one would want to be on the "hamburger"
configuration tab to expose the main menu.

The point i wanted to get across is that the tabs of the Notebookbar are
equivalent to the main categories of the main menu. The hamburger menu might be
exposed at the end of the cycle, but wouldnt think to put it as the starting
place of F10.

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

--- Comment #3 from V Stuart Foote <***@utsa.edu> ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #2)

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #1)

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org
Sorry, but in using the Notebookbar (or presumably any other MUFFIN
assemblage that hides the main menu) exposing the main menu without fuss is
desirable.

What would be the purpose of exposing the main menu bar when all commands in
it are available the Notebookbar? I would believe very few users using the
tabbed Notebookbar would also choose to enable the menu bar.

Entering or leaving any of the MUFFIN configurations is still going to need the
main menu--not providing easy access to it when hidden will just frustrate
users. No problem with hiding it (although exposing it is the first thing I do
with the tabbed Notebookbar) but it should not then be a hassle to unhide it to
move to another GUI configuration.

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org
But I take your point that with the Tabbed Notebookbar now hiding
the main menu by default, one would want to be on the "hamburger"
configuration tab to expose the main menu.

The point i wanted to get across is that the tabs of the Notebookbar are
equivalent to the main categories of the main menu. The hamburger menu might
be exposed at the end of the cycle, but wouldnt think to put it as the
starting place of F10.

So keep it simple and consistent, F10 toggles a hidden main menu open and lands
on it at its normal File menu. Then an F6 to advance into the Notebook bar (or
other MUFFIN layout) or use an appropriate short-cut/accelerator as defined.

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

--- Comment #4 from Heiko Tietze <***@gmail.com> ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #2)

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org
The point i wanted to get across is that the tabs of the Notebookbar are
equivalent to the main categories of the main menu.

If you run the tabbed variant. Every time I have to click the hamburger, enable
the main menu, go to view > toolbars to switch from the default. Feeling
trapped.
F10 or just Alt are good.

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

Yousuf Philips (jay) <***@hotmail.com> changed:

What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
See Also| |https://bugs.documentfounda
| |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90
| |195
Blocks|101912 |

--- Comment #5 from Yousuf Philips (jay) <***@hotmail.com> ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #4)

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org
If you run the tabbed variant. Every time I have to click the hamburger,
enable the main menu, go to view > toolbars to switch from the default.
Feeling trapped.
F10 or just Alt are good.

You may feel trapped because you are switching away, but we can easily add the
View > Notebookbar submenu into the hamburger tab popup menu to make it easy to
switch away without the menu bar.

But the main focus here should be for people who are living in the tabbed
variant. If they choose to have it always on, they will enable it and not look
back, so F10 will function as it does from then onwards, and even if they
switch to another MUFFIN interface and back to the tabbed variant, the menubar
will still be there.

Tomaz has code for unhiding the menu bar temporarily (bug 90195 comment 4), so
hopefully it can get completed and that will be an option, though i think alt
should work on the tabs when the menubar is hidden (bug 107344).


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101912
[Bug 101912] [META] Accessibility (a11y) bugs and enhancements

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

V Stuart Foote <***@utsa.edu> changed:

What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
See Also| |https://bugs.documentfounda
| |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
| |2457

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

Volga <***@outlook.com> changed:

What |Removed |Added
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CC| |***@collabora.com

--- Comment #6 from Volga <***@outlook.com> ---
Hello Szymon Kłos,

Is it possible to add this instruction into .uno:Menubar command?

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

andreas_k <***@gmail.com> changed:

What |Removed |Added
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CC| |***@gmail.com

--- Comment #7 from andreas_k <***@gmail.com> ---
the uno:menubar command is available in tabbed, tabbed compact in the tab row
(top left) and in the menu (hamburger menu)

Have an menubar shortcut could be usefull also in an non notebookbar mode, eg.
you can remove all toolbars and hide the menubar (by shortcut) than you can
have an empty UI where you see only your content.

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

V Stuart Foote <***@utsa.edu> changed:

What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |***@gmail.com

--- Comment #8 from V Stuart Foote <***@utsa.edu> ---
(In reply to andreas_k from comment #7)

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org
the uno:menubar command is available in tabbed, tabbed compact in the tab
row (top left) and in the menu (hamburger menu)
Have an menubar shortcut could be usefull also in an non notebookbar mode,
eg. you can remove all toolbars and hide the menubar (by shortcut) than you
can have an empty UI where you see only your content.

So you are suggesting single UNO command linkage to toggle display of *both*
Menu/Toolbars and of the MUFFIN elements from Notebook Bar/Sidebar & Decks,
clearing the UI?

I like the idea, but insist that because the F10 shortcut (along with F6)
function as cornerstone of the a11y and keyboard only navigation mechanism--it
is not just for display, but also to position the program focus to a *known*
home position, and that has not been fully implemented as MUFFIN has evolved.

IHMO, toggling all GUI controls on or off would be a fresh UX, but it merits
its own dedicated control. Exposure of the main Menubar (in all UI) and
positioning focus onto its initial File entry is the minimum
behavior--adjusting its behavior for use with a MUFFIN assemblage would have to
be done carefully.

Overloading additional actions on the F10, beyond legacy movements or to
expose/reposition Menubar focus for the work done for bug 99195 risks breaking
a11y, and general keyboard navigation.

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

--- Comment #9 from andreas_k <***@gmail.com> ---
For me this bug is similar to BUG 107358.

[b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107343

Heiko Tietze <***@gmail.com> changed:

What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
See Also| |https://bugs.documentfounda
| |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10
| |7358

--- Comment #10 from Heiko Tietze <***@gmail.com> ---
(In reply to andreas_k from comment #9)

Post by b***@bugs.documentfoundation.org
For me this bug is similar to BUG 107358.

Those are different workflows. F10 is the default to put the focus on the main
menu (typically File as the first item) while Alt is the modifier for shortcut
keys at the current context and also used to show hidden underscores.